Episode 41

Where did Joseph get his ideas?

Original Air Date: 2023-06-08

Joseph Smith InfluencesAlexander CampbellBook of Enoch

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The video titled "Where Did Joseph Smith Get His Ideas? | Ep. 1770 | LDS Discussions Ep. 41" is a panel discussion hosted by John Dehlin, featuring Mike from LDS Discussions and Nemo the Mormon. This episode serves as a consolidation of previous discussions, aiming to identify the 19th-century origins of Joseph Smith’s theology and scripture, colloquially referred to by the hosts as the "Joseph Smith’s mixtape Theory" 1-3.

Here is a detailed summary of the video based on the provided transcript excerpts:

The "Mixtape" Thesis

The central premise of the episode is that Joseph Smith was a "product of his surroundings" 4. The hosts argue that the doctrines often cited as unique revelations were actually borrowed from the cultural and religious "waters that Joseph was swimming in" during the early 19th century 5. Mike describes Smith as a "collector" or "aggregator" who took existing ideas from his environment—like tracks for a mixtape—and synthesized them into a new theology 6, 7.

The Book of Mormon and 19th-Century Influences

The panel argues that the Book of Mormon is heavily influenced by the specific milieu of the 1820s:

  • The Mound Builder Myth: The narrative mirrors the prevalent 19th-century belief that an ancient white race built the American burial mounds and was subsequently wiped out by a dark-skinned "savage" race 8.
  • Literary Influences: The hosts discuss similarities in writing style and themes found in contemporary books like View of the Hebrews and The Late War 8, 9.
  • Revivalist Sermons: Citing Grant Palmer, the hosts note that sermons within the Book of Mormon (e.g., King Benjamin) closely resemble Methodist revival sermons from Joseph Smith’s era, covering topics like "feeble frames" and people falling to the ground 10.
  • Sermon Construction: Referencing William Davis’s book Visions in a Seer Stone, Mike explains that Smith likely used the "laying down of heads" technique—a method used by Methodist preachers to improvise long sermons based on short, memorized bullet points 11-13.
  • Alexander Campbell’s Critique: The hosts highlight an 1831 quote by Alexander Campbell, a contemporary of Smith, who noted that the Book of Mormon conveniently solved "every error and almost every truth discussed in New York for the last 10 years," including infant baptism and the Trinity 14.

    • The First Vision

    The hosts challenge the uniqueness of the First Vision, presenting evidence that visionary experiences were common in the "Burned-over District":

  • Contemporary Accounts: The hosts read accounts from Norris Stearns (1815) and Asa Wild (1823) which describe visions of two spirits, brightness defying description, and the message that all current denominations were corrupt 15, 16.
  • Solomon Chamberlain: Chamberlain visited the Smith home in 1829 sharing his own pamphlet about a vision where an angel declared churches corrupt, suggesting Smith was exposed to these specific narratives before writing his own history 17.

    • The Priesthood Restoration

    The episode asserts that the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood was a later addition to church history, retroactively inserted into the timeline:

  • Sidney Rigdon’s Influence: The concept of the Melchizedek Priesthood likely came from Sidney Rigdon, who was influenced by Alexander Campbell and the Disciples of Christ 18, 19.
  • Timeline Discrepancies: While the Aaronic Priesthood has a specific restoration date, the Melchizedek restoration date is vague. David Whitmer, a Book of Mormon witness, claimed this "high priesthood" originated with Rigdon years after the church started 19.

    • Translation Projects (Bible and Enoch)

  • Joseph Smith Translation (JST): Citing scholarship by Haley Wilson Lemmon, the panel notes that Smith’s revision of the Bible relies heavily on Adam Clarke’s Bible Commentary, a text readily available at the time 20.
  • The Book of Enoch: Apologists often claim Smith could not have known about ancient Enoch texts, but scholar Colby Townsend has identified over 80 sources available to Smith that discussed Enoch, challenging the idea that these parallels prove ancient origins 21, 22.

    • The Word of Wisdom

    The health code known as the Word of Wisdom is attributed to the Temperance Movement of the 1830s. The hosts note that the prohibition of "ardent spirits," tobacco, coffee, and tea were standard talking points of groups like the Kirtland Temperance Society and figures like Sylvester Graham 23, 24. The revelation was allegedly prompted by Emma Smith’s complaints about tobacco cleaning, treated initially as a joke by the men 25.

    Cosmology and Race

  • Three Degrees of Glory: The concept of Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial kingdoms was likely derived from Emanuel Swedenborg. The hosts present evidence that Smith was familiar with Swedenborg’s writings via Edward Hunter 26, 27.
  • Race Doctrines: The theological justifications for the priesthood ban (Curse of Cain and Curse of Ham) were 19th-century arguments used to justify slavery. Smith canonized these contemporary racist theories into the Book of Moses and the Book of Abraham 28, 29.

    • The Temple Endowment

    The panel details the heavy borrowing from Freemasonry for the temple endowment ceremony:

  • Timeline: Joseph Smith was initiated as a Master Mason in March 1842 and introduced the endowment in May 1842, just weeks later 30.
  • Similarities: The hosts display Masonic signs, tokens, and symbols (such as the square and compass) that are nearly identical to those used in the LDS endowment and on temple garments 31, 32.
  • Smith’s Rationale: Smith taught that he was restoring the "true" ancient endowment that Masonry had corrupted, though the hosts point out that Masonry originated in medieval Europe, not Solomon’s Temple 33, 34.

    • Conclusion: The "Fullness of the Gospel" Paradox

    The episode concludes by highlighting a paradox: The Book of Mormon is described as containing the "fullness of the gospel," yet it contains almost none of the unique doctrines developed later by Smith (e.g., three degrees of glory, baptism for the dead, temple marriage, or the Word of Wisdom) 4. The hosts argue this is because Smith had not yet encountered the sources (like Swedenborg or Freemasonry) from which he would later draw those ideas 35.

    Analogy:Mike summarizes the entire theory using the metaphor of a Mixtape: Joseph Smith is like a person listening to the radio, hearing various ideas (tracks) from the 19th-century environment—temperance, masonry, folk magic, revivalism—and recording the ones he liked onto a single tape. While the compilation is unique to him, every individual song came from a source readily available in his immediate world 6.

    Episode Info

    Guests: Mike (LDS Discussions), Nemo the Mormon

    Related Article: LDS Discussions